Adam Mitchell (00:01.742)
Hey Joel, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the Close Quarter Dad podcast. I can't tell you how excited I am to have a conversation. This is a tough conversation. This is one that I know that I personally have a connection to and I know that we can talk about that. It's very meaningful to me and there are often times a lot of my guests I can have conversations that are very tactical and we can talk about.
Joelle Casteix (00:03.001)
Hey Joel, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Post -World War II Podcast. I can't tell you...
Adam Mitchell (00:29.262)
teaching children personal protection, we can talk about teaching children how to stay found, whether it be in an urban setting in the woods, abduction awareness, children's role in the family unit and safety. But when it comes to the topics of sexual abuse and victimization, too often my fellow dads will sort of almost put the ignore button on sometimes, knowing it is an important topic, hoping that it becomes,
falls into the category of, well, that's not gonna happen to my kids because, you know, my wife and I are really strong or I'd never let that happen. However, you know, and you're gonna share with us some real hard truths, but I think it really comes down to fear and not being equipped or not having the courage, I'll say both of those things, to face.
Joelle Casteix (01:07.129)
know and you're going to share with us some real hard truths. I think it really comes down to fear and not being equipped or not having the courage, I'll say both of those things, to face the important and might I say the mandatory conversation.
Adam Mitchell (01:22.83)
the important and might I say even mandatory conversations that we as dads have the responsibility to have with our children. And I would like to start off with a swing at that point about where do you feel with your experience we are missing and then let's start to explore what we can do from there.
Joelle Casteix (01:28.185)
Well, when you think about a man's role as a father, you know, not being a man, but their number one role is protecting their kids. It's my job to to protect and care for my kids. And it's more of a
mothering protection, but more of the father physical protection. Talk about child sexual abuse. The ick factor is so strong that no one wants to think that their child could be susceptible to this kind of abuse. And so it's the cataclysmic explosion of these two things. I don't want to think about it. And if it happens, it means I'm a bad father. Then if you add in the third factor of one in six men are sexually abused themselves.
and there are not services and resources that are readily overt for men in many cases. And we as a culture aren't very good at addressing this problem. Then you have a third factor in there. So I think that men in many ways have had their power taken from them when it comes to equipping their child and making their child prepared and armored against child sexual abuse. But I think it's also a very easy problem to begin to solve.
because all it takes is just a few simple things. And I think that we can start really letting men know that, hey, it's okay to talk about it. It's okay to feel it. And it's okay to really help your kids make sure that they're safer from predators.
Adam Mitchell (03:14.094)
Yeah, I want to get into some of those some of those details, but let me unpack something that you said about that if factor. I'd like to kind of go into that a little bit because you know as a dad I often wonder are we are we considering crossing cultural norms, cultural taboos, oftentimes maybe Judeo Christian conversations that you know our grandparents would never have with us or or is it literally something that because I'm.
one of those five out of six that don't have the exposure nor experience or trauma behind me to speak from, I just don't know. And so therefore, I don't want to sound or come across weak as a dad because I'm not equipped to have the answers. Where in that if factor do you feel Mormon resides that we can create a baseline in this conversation and work up from there?
Joelle Casteix (04:03.449)
Well, first I'm going to backtrack. It was the ick factor, I -C -K, not I -F. Yeah. But you brought up a really good point. I didn't think about it that way, but no, it's, it's the, it's, I talk about the ick factor. I mean, people just, they don't want to talk about it. And especially men who, as you just said, um, in the Judeo -Christian traditions where, I mean, I, I grew up Catholic. If you said vagina, you got a detention at school. There was no awareness of our bodies.
Adam Mitchell (04:12.878)
Oh, the ick factor. Corrected. Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (04:22.414)
Yeah, yeah.
Joelle Casteix (04:32.313)
abuse was a child's fault, there was no understanding of how pernicious a predator is. And so we have both of the cultural issues surrounding sexuality, our own misunderstandings of the dynamics of child sexual abuse, plus the fact that it's icky and people don't want to think about it. But what I always try to tell people is that talking about child sexual abuse and helping your kid be prepared doesn't have to talk about any of that.
Adam Mitchell (04:58.67)
Yeah.
Joelle Casteix (05:02.681)
So there's, we don't have to talk about abuse at all. All we talk about is how to communicate and how to make sure that you are not an easy target for a predator.
Adam Mitchell (05:23.374)
Yeah, yeah. So where so then we're going to move into then. Don't you know, there's this thing about stranger danger, right? I run a martial arts school and one of the things that you never want to teach a child is stranger danger, although it comes with the best of intentions and it sounds like the right thing to say. But as the saying goes, you know, a little knowledge can get you killed and a little knowledge can be dangerous.
And what we have to remember when we're speaking to our children that Uncle Sal isn't going to be the guy who shows up when you call 911. And it's not going to be your sister that is, you know, the person who's the operator, the dispatcher when you do call 911. So you have to have this sense of trust when it comes to strangers. So there's a lot of advice out there. What I'm hearing from you is we want to kind of, instead of approaching this from,
from a place of be afraid, don't go there. Everybody can't trust no one and a double negative included for, rather we wanna start this conversation from a place of empowerment in building our children up rather than preventing them from being broken down. Is that what I'm hearing?
Joelle Casteix (06:35.353)
Yeah, and it's even, I can go further in what you said because less than like 3 % of child sexual abuse is done by strangers. Less than like eight or 9 % is done under coercion or threat of violence. That means that there's 90 plus percent of kids who are called compliant victims. That doesn't mean they want it. That doesn't mean they ask for it. It means they've been tricked into it. And then that brings in the shame factor. So,
Adam Mitchell (06:54.99)
Wow, yeah.
Joelle Casteix (07:04.569)
You know, yeah, you should train your kids. Oh, you don't always look both ways when you cross the street, all the other good stranger things, but not to be scared of strangers, because in many cases, the person who sexually abuses you is gonna be someone you love. And they want it to be that.
Adam Mitchell (07:15.054)
Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (07:28.526)
Yeah. Yeah, same applies with abduction, right? So what are what are the how do we break up the different conversations per age? Do you do you suggest? Obviously, there's going to be a different conversation we have with a six year old girl versus a 14 year old boy. And also, where do we begin to sort of throttle back the
Importance of that and and I am saying that maybe a little bit Sarcastically because I don't think even I have these conversations with my 22 year old son who's in the New York City unions Right. I will still continue to have these conversations with him But from your perspective Can you break down for us how we should look at the different age factors and how they play in the conversations? And then maybe we can go on to maybe the differences in gender
Joelle Casteix (08:20.089)
I always encourage parents to begin the discussion as soon as a child has language. And that doesn't mean we're talking about sex. It doesn't mean we're talking about sexual abuse. What we do is we give the kids the right biological terms for their body parts. It's the number one thing you can do. And it's the number one thing that protects little teeny kids from child sexual abuse at work. Well, so I grew up in the Catholic tradition. You didn't say vagina. You called it something else. So...
Adam Mitchell (08:26.126)
based on stats or how you see things.
Joelle Casteix (08:48.537)
I worked with a family, their daughter was sexually abused by the guy. She called her vagina her haha. She and grandfather were playing and he was beginning the grooming process, which is how a predator kind of tricks a kid into thinking that sexual touching is okay. And he brushes by her vagina and she goes, oh, that's my haha. And he goes, oh, I love to laugh. Can I haha? And because her vagina didn't have a proper biological name, she didn't treat it with the seriousness at what it was.
So I did with my son and I encouraged parents to do, you're in the bathtub. Hey, what's this? It's my elbow. What's this? It's my head. What's this? It's my penis. Does anyone touch your penis? No. And you turn it into something that it's obvious. And it became helpful because he started preschool and some of the kids boys started the game of kicking each other in the crotch. My kid in his head said, oh, my mom's never told me no one's ever supposed to touch my penis. He went and reported it. And
the problem stopped. It's the same with girls. And as they get a little older, especially if your child has caregivers who bathe them, if your child's not potty trained, you always want to get your girls potty trained as quickly as possible because that's just an avenue, Trince. And if you talk to a kid openly and honestly saying, these are your body parts and no one touches them and no one takes pictures of them and you don't touch anyone else's. And you say it in the way that you...
train a kid to cross the street. You say, you look both ways. And then you left, right, left again. You don't say that if you don't, a car is gonna come and hit you and spread your skull across the street. So it's just how you prepare your kids for it. You turn it into something that's just like, oh, it's normal. Then as they get older, so you start with the language and then you start with, yeah.
Adam Mitchell (10:53.614)
So Joe, can I just stop there? I have a question about that age group that I think a lot of dads are gonna ask. What about when they're told your bikini parts? Like, don't let anybody touch your bikini parts. You're saying, no, no, don't put pet names to the body. Allow your children to call the body parts, these are my hands, these are my elbows, this is my vagina. Like, it is what it is, and be honest and truthful with them.
Joelle Casteix (11:13.561)
That's exactly what you're hearing. And I mean, and I came from the same school. I mean, I say vagina all the time now, but there's a time that I was weirded out. My son, he'll say vagina, no problem. I mean, you don't give a pet name to your kidney and that's an important organ too. So that's why the biological names are super duper important. Another thing that does is that a predator is always gonna go for the easy target. They don't wanna work too hard.
Adam Mitchell (11:22.702)
and don't hide behind your own fears to create those same fears for your child. Is that what I'm hearing?
Joelle Casteix (11:43.225)
to get at a kid. And so if they are goofing around with a group of three or four kids and trying to figure out who they're gonna target, and one kid says, oh, that's my naughty square, and another kid says, that's where my baby suit goes, and the third kid says, that's my vagina, the kid who says that's my vagina is not gonna be an easy target, and the guy is gonna move on somewhere else. Yeah. And it's so easy. It's so easy.
Adam Mitchell (11:44.014)
Right, yeah, that's a great point.
Joelle Casteix (12:12.217)
And the nice thing, because when my book first came out, I loved talking to preschool parents because they were so open and would listen to anything and none of their kids had smartphones yet. And that was always the easiest thing to get across. It's just like, it's just proper biological language. And you know, you do have to understand. Yeah, your kid's going to go to Target one day and sing a song about his penis or her vagina, and you just deal with it because young parents, they get it. Kids...
Adam Mitchell (12:20.878)
You're not playing around. Yeah, that's a great point. That is something I'm putting in my toolbox. Yeah.
Joelle Casteix (12:39.801)
Kids do and say things that might be a little bit embarrassing, but who cares? Your kid's not gonna be an easy target.
Adam Mitchell (12:46.99)
Language.
Joelle Casteix (12:53.689)
Exactly.
Joelle Casteix (12:58.169)
Yes.
Adam Mitchell (13:04.014)
Yeah. Hey, I love that. So the so what I'm taking from this is that the pet name actually sets separates it from truth. A pet name or a silly name makes that body part of joke now. And therefore it gets it almost allows the entryway the gateway into it being violated and it being treated as a joke.
Joelle Casteix (13:08.857)
Exactly. And something that's shameful. So that if it does get touched, it does get violated, the kid's like, oh, I probably shouldn't talk about it because I really can't even say the right word.
Adam Mitchell (13:36.974)
Yeah. So do you feel that there should very much be, where do you stand on? There should be no difference between how a dad speaks to his son, his eight year old son versus his eight year old daughter. It's the same conversation or are there differences? Should we approach this differently?
Joelle Casteix (13:38.905)
I think the conversations are exactly the same. And I think that what is it, and the reason that it's important is because every kid needs five people they trust that they can go to in case something happens. And one of those should be dad. And if dad can't have that conversation or, and this is something that, you know, was a problem with my husband, like if dad flies off a handle a lot, the kid's not gonna come to them. So these conversations are important. And if dad conversations with the kids starting,
with bath time and then going into preschool and everything else. It's not gonna be weird when the kids eight years old talking about it. We are very open about protecting our bodies. And the conversation goes a step further too. And this is something that I think dads can really get into is that little kids, you know, oh, go hug grandma, go hug uncle Joe, and we forced our kids to do that.
Adam Mitchell (14:22.126)
That's true.
Joelle Casteix (14:38.041)
And no, if a kid doesn't want to hug someone, don't make them. Because just like when you give a pet name to your genitalia, you're saying it's not important. When you tell a kid, go hug Uncle Steve, you're telling the kid, you don't have power over your body. You have to hug him even though you don't want to. And if Uncle Steve's a predator and he's like, oh, well, you have to hug me, baby. He's going to be all over it. And that's a great conversation that dads can have, too. And that goes right along up there so that the more you normalize a conversation.
the less weird you make it, the earlier you start. And if your kid's older, just be honest, be like, dude, I'm just as embarrassed as you are, but I love you that much, we gotta talk about it. And let's just laugh and sweat it out together. I want dads to be that person, that number one, number two person that a kid goes to when they need help, because dads are, they're it, man, they're important.
Adam Mitchell (15:53.453)
Yeah, so culturally, I know my children on their mother's side, they come from a Sicilian family. So the hugs and the kisses, that's, that is a thing. And my youngest daughter has always been, you know, hold on. No, I don't, I don't want to hug uncle so -and -so and I don't want to do that. And there, I have witnessed this, oh, come on, stop it. But what's going on there is you as an adult are looking at it from the cultural adult eyes. It's acceptable. He's just.
Joelle Casteix (16:02.169)
Mm -hmm.
Adam Mitchell (16:22.478)
However, you don't know what's going on in the body or in the mind of that little girl at that time. And I'm hearing your message, I'm thinking about it a little bit differently where before Joelle, I used to say, no, she doesn't want to and let that be it. But now I'm thinking that you're allowing a younger girl or a younger boy to say that this type of compliance is expected. And that's a very wrong message. And it also,
sends a message to your daughter or your son that I'm not on your side in this one. And think about that for a moment where a lot of dads are like, come on, just go give uncle Jimmy a hug. He loves you, go give him a hug. I don't want to dad. Ah, come on, just go to, but it's like, well, hold on. What are you actually doing here? And in some ways you may think you're being a softie or you're being like, you know, a lot of dads might be like, oh, come on, let just stop being a wimp. But actually you're being a wimp by doing that.
Joelle Casteix (17:11.225)
Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (17:19.662)
because you're not letting your daughter stand her ground and you're not teaching her that, you know what, when it comes to a personal boundary and your comfort, I'm not gonna be there. I'm bailing on you. And that's the message that you're sending. So I really appreciate this part of the conversation because it is making me think a little differently here too. And I would invite our listeners to kind of consider that.
Joelle Casteix (17:24.025)
Well, you take away child's whole sense of agency. They have to do what an adult says when it comes to their bodies. And there are great ways to get around it. I don't want to hug uncle so -and -so. Great. Give him a fist bump. I never encourage lying, but it's like, you know what? Just say the kid has a cold so that it doesn't turn... Because you don't want to embarrass your kid in that situation either. And just like, this is the way it is. Let's go with it.
Adam Mitchell (17:47.246)
Yeah.
Joelle Casteix (18:10.297)
Mm -hmm.
Adam Mitchell (18:12.014)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about at this? So we're going so what I'm hearing here there with the younger children, the important thing is to identify their body parts as what they are and relegate them to the same importance of the rest of the body. Be honest. Honesty matters. Words matter and don't give.
Joelle Casteix (18:22.745)
Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (18:35.118)
pet names or silly names because then it relegates those parts of your body to the domain of silly and joke and not not serious. Then as they get older what would you say you all maybe we're talking around the 6 year -old maybe 5 to 6 year -old this is where we start have to as a parent really supporting our child's boundaries and their their their their the physicality of their day to day and and who they're hugging what they're doing what respecting their personal space and.
Joelle Casteix (18:51.353)
Well, and we've also, by this time, we've also made it clear to kids that, you know, you don't touch anyone else's penis, vagina, so on and so forth. You want to make sure that the kid knows the other sex's body parts or that they exist. They don't, you know, just that it's somewhat normalized. Not that it's some big mystery that a boy looks different or a girl looks different. You want to make sure that the child knows that, you know, they're never to touch anyone else's, that no one touches theirs.
Adam Mitchell (19:04.974)
not sort of trying to commandeer that for them. Where do we go from that?
Joelle Casteix (19:18.393)
No one asked to look at theirs if they go to the doctor with mom or dad, that's a different story and the doctors, you know, so on and so forth. That if an adult makes them feel uncomfortable or weird, it's always okay to come to talk to mom and dad. When you send your kid to school, you ask what the school's protocol is for reporting child sexual abuse, ask what their procedures are, whether it's a school or church or whatever, ask them what the policies are and ask them if...
Adam Mitchell (19:30.286)
Yeah, yeah.
Joelle Casteix (19:47.385)
how the policies are enforced, and if everyone knows the policies. Then the most important thing you can do is talk to your kid. And, because when they're little, especially you know, six, seven, and eight, they'll tell you everything about their day. They don't shut down until the tween years, but they'll tell you everything. And so the more you're open to it, and the more you talk about it, and you know, things are gonna happen.
around you. That's when you probably depending on where your kid is, you know, if you have a kid with older siblings, they might learn about earlier. So you can bring up those discussions and just be like, hey, you know, our bodies are our most precious thing that we have and we want to keep them safe. And if anything happens that that hurts you or makes you weird or makes your tummy feel weird, you know, sometimes adults make your tummy feel you come and talk to mom.
because that's where the, this is the time of where the gut becomes important too. Cause we, I'm sorry, I'm really chatty today. We all look back at elementary school and there were those people at our elementary school that we just thought were creeps. The guy was weird. He made us feel weird, everything else. And I remember telling my parents and my parents were just like, ah, you know, it's you're crazy. Well, the guy ended up being a child molester. Yeah. Yeah. They were, they were weird.
So you gotta tell a kid to trust their gut, you know? And your gut, you know, when you get that tickle, believe it, you know? Yeah.
And this is also the time, and I hate bringing this up because it's so sad, but it's also important. And I know that you'll understand, something like 25 % of child sexual abuse is perpetrated by older kids. So it's really important to make it clear that just because an older kid tells your child to do something, that they don't have to. That they don't have to listen to the older kids, and they can keep their bodies safe.
Adam Mitchell (21:28.558)
I know they were weird. Oh yeah, yeah.
Adam Mitchell (21:39.31)
The inner voice, we call it the inner voice, just the inner voice, yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Adam Mitchell (22:06.894)
Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (22:10.83)
how do we bridge from the inappropriate physical touch conversation to when a child says, well, why don't, like, I get that, I don't want anybody to touch me anywhere, but why there or there when touching my eyeball is just as uncomfortable before we get to sex education and before we've had those conversations, maybe it's because you're a parent who doesn't think it's appropriate until age 11 or whatever your own reasons and rules are, not to question. But I'm curious,
Joelle Casteix (22:23.481)
Most kids won't ask. They just, cause you gotta, yeah, when you think about this, the development of the child's brain at that time, when you say no, cause it's important, no one touches it. And the kid in their head says, yeah, it's covered all the time. I don't walk around naked, that seems reasonable. And they shut it down. Or they don't question further. Because it's the, I've never seen any kind of pushback as to why there and not here.
Adam Mitchell (22:40.238)
about the bridge of the sexual in this conversation for that age.
Hmm, okay.
Joelle Casteix (22:51.577)
That's something that if you brought it up for the first time in the kids 14, they might bring up, but that would be like the kid came out of the blue and never had any previous knowledge. Kids are curious, but there are times that kids will just, they'll stop the questions when they know that that's all they need to know and that's all that they can handle. And so my son learned about sex. He was in the third grade and...
At the time, I was like the hardcore exposing sex abuse lady. I'm out in front of churches, I'm leafleting, I'm doing press conferences, all kinds of stuff. And so he knew that sexual abuse was a thing, but it didn't have a connection. He just knew it as two words. He came to me and he's like, mom, so this is sex, what's sexual abuse? And I said, well, sometimes adults or bigger kids can use sex to hurt someone. And I thought, oh, this is gonna be a conversation that it's gonna, and he's like, oh.
Okay, thanks. And he left. So they just, they take what they want and they're able to, to move forward. And then when their brain develops and absorb that information, it was still a couple of years later that he came back and he said, so about the sexual abuse thing, how does that happen? And then they'll, they come back with more questions.
Adam Mitchell (24:02.926)
Hmm.
Joelle Casteix (24:15.481)
No, no, no, no, that's he's 17. That's now. But back then, back now, it was it was it was no big deal because kids, unless they are raised in a household where there's a lot of shame around it, that's unnecessary. But we didn't talk about sex before it came up. And then, you know, if we're watching a movie, you just fast forward over that part or whatever. And but it wasn't kids are very
Adam Mitchell (24:28.589)
been because he was maybe he was maybe uncomfortable having that conversation with mom that was kind of like oh here comes the nude scene in the movie that we're sitting in the living room watching I gotta go to the refrigerator guess what could it have been one of the
Yeah.
Joelle Casteix (24:45.881)
Kids' brains develop in the best way possible for them to handle information at the appropriate time. And so he wasn't embarrassed. His little brain just wasn't ready to grapple with it yet.
Adam Mitchell (25:23.086)
So I want to step back into something that you brought up, which is the sexual abuse, peer to peer sexual abuse. And I know that whether it's out on the baseball field and all the boys are out there, the game's over and they're grabbing their slushies or their, and then the parents are talking and all the boys are playing. You know, you'll see that, you know, one boy or a group of boys will run up from behind and grab another boy's crotch or they'll hit each other, you know, between the legs or.
They'll do something very inappropriate and it's oftentimes it's kind of shrugged off as how it's just boys being boys, you know All boys do that. I think you know, they do that silly thing or you know They'll poke their finger and some kids but or like they'll just they do that's what boys do and I'm like, well, hold on a second. That's not Maybe maybe so but let's let's if that was a girl and the boy did that how would he be treated and if he's being treated differently because it's a girl and
What's wrong with this? So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the conversation and the preparedness that we need to have around the peer to peer, what's right, what's wrong, where those boundaries should be taught by us and how you see it. Cause that's, I'm sure that you've probably seen that with your own children or boys out in the, you know, baseball field where I'm just kind of pulling that out of thin air, but running around grabbing each other and being stupid and silly like that. It just being kind of shrugged off.
Joelle Casteix (26:33.465)
Well, a lot of this and this it's a great way to explain to people that sexual abuse and sexual assault has very little to do with sex and everything to do with power. In these situations with a boy, it's a big power play. And it's not that the kid goes in and be like, I'm going to do this power play, but it is a power play. It is a dominating play. There are many better ways that a kid can make a power play outside of physically assaulting or sexually assaulting another child.
Adam Mitchell (26:51.502)
Is there something more? Are we being too sensitive? What's right? What's wrong here from your perspective?
Joelle Casteix (27:03.385)
And I, you know, that's why when I told my son, nobody touches you, nobody touches your penis, nobody touches your testicles, nobody touches, you know, even the backside of your bottom. And so that when the kids decided to do their kick in the crotch game, he's like, oh, the circuits cross. I should tell about this. It's the same discussion you should have with boys that it is not right and it is not appropriate for your body to be touched or violated in any way that you don't want it to be.
Adam Mitchell (27:09.742)
Ah.
Joelle Casteix (27:32.665)
and that it's safe to come forward to talk about it. I was doing the book tour for the Well -Armored Child and I was visiting a friend and a bunch of moms were there and all their kids. And as I'm doing the talk to the moms, the boys decide to teabag each other. And I come back in and they're like, oh, boys will be boys, boys will be boys. And I'm like, ooh.
We're gonna dial back this conversation because yeah, the guy tea bagging might think it's funny, but not the kid underneath. I mean, some of the most traumatized survivors that I have worked with are the ones who've been sexually assaulted and victimized by older kids because not only were they defenseless in that there were other kids around and there was nothing they could do.
But adults wouldn't believe them and then they got the boys will be boys thing. And it's just as traumatizing. And so that's why I do a lot of work against hazing because I believe hazing in sports is it's just bullying. I think bullying is just low grade sexual assault or sexual assault is high grade bullying, depending on how you look at it, because it's a power play. And the more that we protect our kids from being bullied and assaulted or hazed.
Adam Mitchell (28:35.246)
No, not the kid underneath. Not at all.
Joelle Casteix (28:57.209)
And the more that we let kids know, because I think a lot of times that all the kids who were doing the t -bagging, all they needed to know was that that is the wrong thing to do. But they were told that boys will be boys. So you got to set rules and you got to set boundaries. And the earlier you do that, the better.
Adam Mitchell (29:43.982)
I'd like to offer something for thought to our listeners on this, where you were just sharing about the boys are over there playing and they're doing their thing, and I could see a community of parents having a conversation and look over, hey Bobby, knock that off, Timmy, get off the ground, cut it out guys, stop. But meanwhile, what's going on, to some it may be nefarious, to some it may be boys being boys.
But to the boys, another dynamic is going on, like you're saying, and it is a power play. And the boy on the bottom is, it's traumatic to that boy. I might also add, Joelle, I'm curious to hear your opinion of this. I might also add that it's traumatic to the boy that's doing it. And I might also add it's traumatic to the boy that's standing there watching and doesn't know how to respond and feels extremely uncomfortable.
I think every dad on this that's listening can recall that moment when they were a kid and they watched another kid get beat up and they didn't know what to do. They froze. I'm sure that there's a lot of dads who wish they could go back in time. The first time they broke another human's body, whether that's through a split lip, a bloody nose, but the first time they broke another person with their child hands, you know, the story may have been spun as well. You were sticking up for yourself. You were doing the right thing.
That's adult talk to a child. You're breaking another human with your young little hands. And every man here will remember that one, that time that they did that, that is trauma. That is something that you've carried with you your whole life and whatever it leaks out like, or looks like, or has spilled out and you haven't seen it, doesn't make a difference. I'm just calling it for what it is. And then of course, that boy that's on the bottom, that's having it done to him, that is traumatizing. So,
I'm curious, Joe, do you, would you be aligned with me in that thought where we don't want to just look at the victim, but we also want to recognize a child who is doing that is also, even though, you know, he got, there's accountability that has to come in. Like he has to be taught not to do that, whatever, you know, that, that is very wrong. And he's victimizing someone, but in many ways he's also doing something to another child that he's going to unfortunately have to carry with him for the rest of his life. How do you feel about that?
Joelle Casteix (31:39.481)
I think it's even a step further many times the boys that do that are being victimized themselves and it's an act of aggression. So the viewpoint that I take and that a lot of professionals take is that, you know, especially with child offenders, you need to treat them in a trauma informed way, meaning that there needs to be consequences, there need to be repercussions, needs to be a lesson learned, but you need to understand that this child is most likely also a victim of trauma.
Then when you look at the kids who are the bystanders, we do a lot of work with training allies. And so that goes back to the every kid should have five trustable to go to. And so if you and then you teach your kid, if you see anything that makes you feel weird, if you see anything, the kid, another kid getting hurt, any of that, you can come to me and it is safe. So you tell your kid that being an ally is actually being a hero.
Adam Mitchell (32:11.15)
Yeah, yeah.
Joelle Casteix (32:36.825)
And it's not tattling. And that's another, I, you know, I never punished the tattletales. And I got into some heated discussions about it, but it's like, yeah, there's going to be that kid who reports everything, but at least they report everything. And as long as they're telling the truth and they're, you know, that you really need to encourage kids to talk to you about things that, that they are seeing and witnessing that make them uncomfortable.
So you make an ally a hero and you treat everyone as a victim of trauma in this.
Joelle Casteix (33:33.337)
Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (33:40.046)
Powerful in in New York, you know, we use the term a rat, you know, don't be a rat and parents of kids will hear it Don't be a tall tale. Don't be a rat There's a difference between a rat and a hero though Like you're saying if it comes down to you reporting another child being hurt or someone's property being Destroyed you're being a hero. You're helping you're actually saving and serving other people. You're not being a rat So that's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up So we're in in this stage
Joelle Casteix (33:57.753)
You don't see as much girl on girl bullying or violence as you see boy on boy But you will see It it really really depends on the kid if a kid if the perpetrator child is a victim of some serious trauma himself You really don't know what to expect and so one of the things that I do during this time Especially like right around middle school is when kids will start to disclose abuse
Adam Mitchell (34:09.294)
Joel, do we see a difference between, a common difference that you see between, let's say we're somewhere around the middle school, right? Seventh, eighth grade, maybe even early ninth grade. Do we see a difference between the types of victimization in peer -to -peer environments with boys versus girls?
Joelle Casteix (34:26.457)
and the first person they're gonna go to is their little buddy at school. And so that's when you tell your kid, hey, you know, my son's Nicholas, Nick, if someone comes to you and says that something weird happened or, you know, and I went through a bunch of scenarios, you can totally come to me because that's not your burden to bear. Even if that person swears you to secrecy, you need to come and talk to me about it. And then as they get a little older,
Like when my son started high school, you know, on the back of his ID card was a suicide hotline. And I'm like, if they're putting the suicide hotline in the back ID cards, I'm telling middle schoolers that they can report if they want to. And so I always encourage people to, you know, hopefully a kid would have five people they could trust. Those five people, if they have questions and concerns, the best place to call is the Child Help Hotline.
which is 1 -800 -4 -CHILD. It's the nation's, the national child abuse hotline. They also do child sex abuse calls. And what they do is they have trained crisis counselors on the phone 24 hours a day who will walk you through what happened and then point you in the right direction to report. And yeah, cause...
Number four, a child and it's childhelp .org. So, and when you empower a child to come to you and report when someone talks to them, you have taken away 80 % of the problems that we get that kids don't report. They're like, well, I didn't know if I could come to you, mom. I didn't know if it'd be safe. I didn't think you'd understand. Or I was told to keep it secret. But at least if you say,
Adam Mitchell (36:06.254)
And that's for F .O .R. child, right?
Joelle Casteix (36:07.673)
You don't have it. I will protect you. I will protect your friend. We will stay safe. We're going to help your friend. Your kid knows. Oh, OK. Mom's cool. Dad's cool. Dad will help. My dad helps people. I help people. I'm an ally. I'm a hero.
Adam Mitchell (36:10.862)
for a child. Okay.
Joelle Casteix (36:38.649)
Oh yes.
Adam Mitchell (36:54.19)
Yeah, powerful. Wow. Yep. Maybe outside of the scope of this conversation, but I have to ask at about this age, this is where most kids, maybe even younger, early middle school, this is where they're going to get exposed to online porn and what, what impact and what we're talk to me a little bit about this. I mean, I know it and you know, I've talked for hours at length and read a lot of books about this, but on the podcast here, I've spoke to some top professionals about this.
But what really interests me about your experience and what you can offer here is that bridge really from porn exposure. And I might not say light porn, but hardcore porn, because it just, algorithmically, it accelerates at a hockey stick pace. And you go from soft porn or just sort of mild, let's call it mild dehumanization of a woman.
Joelle Casteix (37:50.361)
Yeah, I'm not really an expert on this, but I will speak to what I know on it. When kids are exposed to porn, many times against their will, because their friend says, hey, look at this. It's also a trauma, because it hasn't been explained to the child first, and they have a physical reaction that they can't understand, especially for boys. So they get this feeling, and they're like, well, I kind of, I got this nice feeling, I don't know, so I guess it can't be bad. So.
Adam Mitchell (37:52.11)
to a child and then all of a sudden the algorithm connects and it skyrockets. And I'm curious to hear your optics on what the bridge to the sexual abuse looks like. How that content shifts the dynamic of a child's understanding of their sexuality or a child's understanding of sexual opportunity at that age.
Joelle Casteix (38:19.609)
I, once your kid is online or around other people who are online, you warn them. It's like, son, if anyone shows you naked people, people having sex, people, just turn around and walk away. Because I think that pornography and the algorithm is one of the more damaging things happening to our boys right now, because it's a function of their limbic system that they aren't able to then have, you know,
proper rite of passage sexuality with their peers as they go into adulthood. Instead, it's this artificial convoluted horrible thing, and then they can't be aroused properly. And then because the algorithm is such a mess, it's very degraded to when it comes to child sex abuse material, what we used to call child porn.
It's harder to get but if you know the right people it's easy to get and they're finding more and more than like 70 % of people who view child pornography then actively go and look for a child. So if yeah, it's high. It was a study out of Canada. So if they're doing that, what does regular pornography do to a child? So I think that...
Joelle Casteix (39:58.585)
Yep, it's a study out of Canada. Yeah, it is, it is gnarly. And that's what, cause I...
Adam Mitchell (40:00.878)
Wow.
Adam Mitchell (40:10.03)
Let me hear that again. I just, I gotta, I gotta crack that open a little bit. 70 % of people through this study who are witness to child pornography, seven out of 10 will at some level or in some way pursue that stimulation at some point.
Joelle Casteix (40:17.497)
Yeah, I did, and I still do a lot of work for survivors of the clergy sex abuse crisis. And we would find a lot of priests who would have child pornography and we found a one -to -one correlation. I mean, it was higher than 70%. If they had child pornography, they were abusing kids. And there's nothing healthy, natural or right about it. It is not a victimless crime. And it is...
Adam Mitchell (40:34.446)
I think.
I was just going to say, I like all you guys. Everybody's listening to this. Just press the pause button, pull your car over and just reflect on that for a moment. That is something else. Wow. Please go ahead. Sorry.
Joelle Casteix (40:47.385)
To give an idea of how awful it is, the National Center for Missing and Unmissing is the big clearinghouse for CSAM images. And when I say clearinghouse, they tag these images, which helps law enforcement find them better. And then they're able to pursue these cases. And you can train the machines to help somewhat, but because you can't allow these images on any kind of cloud computing system, because you don't want someone else to hack in and get them,
You don't have the computing power of AI or whatever to help you identify these images. So people, regular everyday people who've been trained have to look at these images and tag them and identify them as child pornography. The trauma and turnover for these people is astounding. I'm working with a woman who just helped them build part of the AI system and she had to retire early because the trauma was so great. This stuff is bad. It is gross. And we've got to get ahead of it and we cannot.
Say, oh, just because you look doesn't mean you do. No, it means you do.
Adam Mitchell (42:25.71)
Yeah, we had a Nick McKinley from the deliver fund on, and he was talking about child trafficking and the, and the, um, the exposure of, uh, child porn and the sort of the market of children inside that space and how they had to review all of that content. It's unbelievable. Uh, and I know I don't, I don't want to keep going down this rabbit hole too deep, but there is such a connection between.
Joelle Casteix (42:29.945)
Oh, well, the kids in the picture were abused. So yeah, it's not a victimless crime. The kid in the photo was abused. So, um, yeah.
Adam Mitchell (42:55.886)
I mean, you know, even though it is digital, it is still sexual victimization at the highest level. I mean, it's not physical, but.
Joelle Casteix (43:04.313)
but we're also not treating this as a scary subject either. So, yeah.
Adam Mitchell (43:06.862)
Yeah, oh yeah. Right. Yeah. True. True.
We move into now, so I'm hearing, so for the young children, the conversations about their body, really, I mean, that's where we gotta start building trust with them to have these conversations. There's no silliness, there's no, we're not joking, we're not sort of, we're not giving fake names or pet names to our private.
Adam Mitchell (43:41.07)
Yes, correct. For the little ones, yeah. We're empowering them. We're not creating the fake boogie men. We're not deep, you know, we're not sort of saying, hey, you can't go there. We're actually empowering them with the truth. And then as they get older, the next is to empower them to tell the truth, to empower them to know and understand that hurt does happen. This is where we start to introduce,
the actual, because they're starting to go through sex ed and we can explain that this is actually, it is, yes, it is the way to create life, but it is also another way to destroy life. So you're playing with a lot of power here and lives are destroyed in the digital space. So turn your back because what you see will stay with you. And I am going to stole out some fear here. I want you to know this. And when your kids start and your friends start sharing that stuff, take a step back because someone is getting hurt.
Joelle Casteix (44:22.105)
I think that this is where we really have to take away the stigma of, I mean, you seem to be about my age, the whole hot for teacher thing. It is never cool for an older teacher or an adult to be with a kid, period. Teenagers are smart. They will talk themselves through it. They think they're cool. They think they're funny or funny that boys are being lured online very easily.
Adam Mitchell (44:39.47)
and you are a hero because I've explained to you the difference between a tattletale and a hero. Now as we move into the more into the teenage years, we're getting into high school. What does the landscape look like here, Joel? What are the conversations that we should be thinking about as dads?
Joelle Casteix (44:49.529)
So it's really keeping that conversation going, letting them know that sexual contact between any adult and any teenager is not okay. Letting them know that it is safe to report. Teaching them about dating violence and things like that. Making their web of support maybe a little bit bigger. And also this is where we really have to get into the social media side of things.
I don't think kids should be on social media until high school. I don't think they should be on social media at all. So this is where it's like, you know, and I tell this to boys all the time and they get really embarrassed, but it's like, I'm telling you, if some girl you haven't met online asks for a picture of your penis, I guarantee it's not a girl. I guarantee it's some 40 year old dude living in his mom's basement. Cause no 16 year old girl wants a picture of it. Don't do it. And,
I tell the girls too, it's like, don't post photos of yourself in sexy poses, don't post semi nudes, never take a picture of yourself naked, even if you're just celebrating your body, because the ability for that picture to get out is too great. And this is the time that you need to really, really protect yourself. Because a kid, where do we feel safest? When we're in bed, on our phone, yeah.
And that's how these predators are getting in. And they make their way to these kids who are vulnerable and scared and alone and don't have a safety net. And kids, just all they want is love. It's a kid's job. Their job is to love. You just want to make sure that the predator isn't the one getting that.
Adam Mitchell (46:15.47)
Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (46:44.846)
At home, yeah.
Adam Mitchell (47:07.214)
One of the areas that concerns me, you're talking about distributing content, like they're taking images of themself or just putting themself, you're just putting ass photos up on Instagram or whatever, is that we want to explain to our children that, okay, for you right now, because of the, it's just so ubiquitous, that type of content, you feel this sort of pressure to keep up.
I see that, I see that, I understand that. However, that image isn't just the now. Unfortunately, you think that things get buried in a feed and after a couple days, it's not there, out of sight, out of mind, right? It's gone. However, so long as the internet is on, that will be in perpetual syndication. It will always be available when you go to college, when you go for a job, when you're a mom and your children are online.
whatever that looks like, it will always be circulating and available. I might even argue as technology advances, that content will become more readily available. And you need to be very aware of that when you're speaking to your children about what they're sharing on social media or what they're texting to other kids. So yeah, that point is very well taken. As we get into this age,
Joelle Casteix (48:15.641)
That's in a white pan, yeah.
Adam Mitchell (48:35.854)
What do we see some of the I'm really interested on this peer to peer thing. We I think we prepare ourselves as dads for the bad guy, the white van scenario. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that is so far from, as you said, you know, 80 percent of those victimizations are year to year. Those numbers change, you know, but it usually hovers around that little over the 80 percent.
in terms of abduction, at least I could imagine the sexual victimization is somewhere in the same number, but that we prepare our minds for the worst case scenario when we should instead be preparing our actions in our minds for the most likely scenario, right? And instead of preparing for the boogeyman, we actually need to think like, okay, who around you is the potential threat?
Joelle Casteix (49:30.105)
You really hit the nail on the head there. It is so under reported because the last thing schools want is to be seen as a place where kids are getting sexually assaulted by older kids. So it's, and there's a system within the, because I have the way the private schools work and public schools are very, very different in this. Catholic schools would keep a record of everything and use it to get in their secret files. Public schools tend to, those recs tend to stay with the principal.
Adam Mitchell (49:34.478)
or what in the peer -to -peer community, what does that look like? How does the school respond to this? How do your blue -ribbon schools wanna brush this stuff under the table so they stay blue -ribbon schools and that stuff doesn't get reported up the chain of command and it becomes known that this actually has happened in the school as a history of that, so they end up covering it up. What are some of the concerns that we wanna look at in that peer -to -peer space?
Joelle Casteix (49:57.337)
They keep a notebook, they write everything down. When they leave, they take that notebook with them. The number one thing that schools respond to most, unfortunately, civil lawsuits and criminal investigations. I live in California. We have a civil rights law here that basically says it is a child's civil right to go to school and feel safe. So...
Adam Mitchell (50:01.102)
And what are the differences between the girls and the boys here at that age?
Joelle Casteix (50:21.977)
I was working with a family, their son was being bullied, the mom's like, I want these kids expelled, they're doing these horrible things, the school wasn't doing anything. I'm like, let's dial this back a bit. Legally, the hassle of getting those kids expelled is one thing. But if you go in there and say, it is my child's civil right to go to school and not be scared, and you are violating his civil rights,
And if you do things like have him escorted by a security guard, you are violating his civil rights there because you're making him a target. And then if you don't fix this, you will be subject to a civil rights lawsuit. Then, and you put it in writing, then all of a sudden the school's on notice and they figure out what to do because they have the resources to fix it. They have the resources to protect these kids, but that's not why principals got into this job. So they don't want to do it. And so it is really...
tough. And I think that the more you see with with bullying and hazing, it depends on the stature of the school, whether the school is really high stature, they're going to protect it. If the school is really low income, they're not going to be able to have the resources to stop it. So it really is a matter of parents getting involved, understanding what your child's civil rights are in the education space.
and being prepared to make tough decisions when it comes to educating your child. And, you know, I am all about, you know, making, keeping my kids safe. And I've worked with so many parents who are like, oh, I just don't want to take them out of school. And I don't want to, you know, put them in a private school or I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. And I'm like, no, I would, I would go into debt to put my kid in a school where he's safe, but he has a civil right to be safe in school. So it's...
I think that parents tend to live, some tend to live in this fantasy land where, oh, it can't get that bad. We'll figure that, but no, you have to be upfront. You have to talk to school officials. You have to find out what the policies are. You have to find out if they're being violated. You have to find out what the laws are in your state and see if there's a history of this problem at the school. And you have a lot of options. And because basically,
Joelle Casteix (52:41.017)
A school sees, let's look at any typical middle school or high school. Three years, four years. My kid is a short -term problem at that school, because in four years, he's out of here and we don't have to deal with his crap anymore. We are a short -term problem. Child sexual abuse is a long -term problem. What happens to my son in that school is a long -term problem for him. So they need to fix it. They can't see this as a short -term problem anymore.
Adam Mitchell (52:44.91)
Yeah, of course.
Joelle Casteix (53:07.225)
I can't be seen as the parents can't be seen as a rusty nail that needs to be, you know, just ignored or beaten down. We need to make conscious efforts to make sure that kids are safe in school from peer and peer abuse, from bullying, from sexual and from sexual abuse by teachers and other staff members.
Joelle Casteix (53:45.817)
It affects their brain development. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (54:03.086)
That's an excellent point, you know, that you say that you're talking about the short -term problems, it's viewed like that. Well, you know, they'll be out of the school in a, however, that lifetime problem only can take one minute and they're carrying that for the rest of their life. And it changes their decisions. It changes their relationships. It changes their own self -image. It changes everything about the mirror. One minute, that's everything. Yeah.
Joelle Casteix (54:09.433)
Mm -hmm.
Joelle Casteix (54:26.009)
I'm of the opinion that age of consent is 18 period, but that's just my opinion unfortunately In I was abused in Southern California in the 80s at the time the age of consent was 16 however Because he was a teacher there was no consent involved there and so since I was abused between the ages of 15 and 17 That counted as abuse now at the time
Adam Mitchell (54:29.39)
I'd like to step into one final part of, well, there's two more questions I have. I'd like to, and I don't know if it's a question, but I'm really interested to hear and learn more about this sticky subject of age of consent and different states. Yeah, I see, I see, I think you know where I'm going with this because this can be a real bypass for some people. And I'm curious to hear what dads should know about.
Joelle Casteix (54:50.969)
My criminal and civil statutes ran out when I was 19. So I was only able to come forward years later when we passed a law that changed it. I think that, and this will require some research, but when it comes to anyone in a position of power, teacher, police officer, and that stuff, the age of consent is 18. And if it's a sexual assault, there is no, I mean, I don't wanna say sexual assault, but if it's like a coercive rape situation.
Adam Mitchell (54:58.926)
when it comes to age of consent laws, how that changes and how that can be weaponized.
Joelle Casteix (55:20.825)
There's no age of consent. I think that when it comes to the loosey goosey years of he's 18, she's 17, that's a tough call and that's really up to parents because my son will be 18 in June. And we're going to have the talk with him. It's like, you know what? Just don't go out with girls under 18. Just don't. That's fine. So that's fine. But.
Yeah, so it's like, just don't. But that's me. And I think that what we really need to do is get serious legislative reform around the country and make sure that age of consent is 18, that forced marriage and the marriage of minors isn't allowed. That's a big problem. It's weird. In California, the over -regulated state that we are,
they do not have a law protecting against child marriage. The parent can sign a kid into marriage at any time because the ACLU came in and said, the religious rights of these people. So I think that we should need to make the age of consent for marriage 18, all of it, all of it, because kids just, especially when someone is in a position of power and can either coerce them through violence or even more devastating love, that the kid doesn't have any defenses.
Adam Mitchell (56:26.67)
There's a whole stack of reasons there I'm sure that you're coming from, right?
Joelle Casteix (56:42.393)
and it's up to adults to protect.
Joelle Casteix (56:52.345)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not talking about the Stone Ages, the Vatican, yeah. And even for them, the age of consent, there was some like weird language in there that is only for boys, not for girls. It's just weird. It's weird. But I think that we're looking at like 14, 15 in some states. But I don't have that data right here in front of me.
Adam Mitchell (57:29.038)
Is it true that some of the states are still at like 12? I know the Vatican changed their laws in 2017. What was the conversation?
Joelle Casteix (57:43.769)
There are going to be a lot of men listening to this who've been sexually abused and haven't talked about it. And men who were sexually abused as boys, especially by older men, face a very pernicious type of shame that can be utterly devastating. And because culturally, we don't encourage our boys to
Adam Mitchell (57:45.582)
I'm out.
Adam Mitchell (58:00.078)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's that's just crazy. So I think maybe that could be a good starting point for a lot of concerned dads is just do a quick Google search and find out what is the age of consent in your state this way. I mean, just to know that information. Gosh, I have so many questions that have come up from this. I'm sitting here writing notes and I think I want to be sensitive of your time. But what question haven't I asked?
Joelle Casteix (58:12.985)
cry and discuss these things that fosters within these poor kids. And it comes out in self -destruction, alcoholism, substance abuse, violence, all these things. I mean, if you interview the population of any men's jail, you'll find that the vast majority were sexually abused as children. And so fortunately we've done quite a bit and there are places for men to go and not be alone and not
make their names known. I mean, even the Boy Scout scandal, 80 ,000 boys came forward in the Boy Scout sexual abuse scandal. This is not a little problem. And so I'm the chair of the board of a nonprofit called Zero Abuse Project. And we just absorbed one in six, which is the nation's leading support group for men who've been sexually abused as boys. It's a great place to start. They have the bristle comb project. So if you look up number one, IN6 .org, men have been...
posted their stories of how they were abused and how they have come through it. There's also free online anonymous support groups and all kinds of resources just for the men who are beginning to explore their pain through all of this. And so that's really what I think that because I've worked with scores and scores and scores of survivors. And I always found that the men who were, especially once they have kids have so many conflicting feelings.
because it's like, I couldn't protect myself, how can I protect my kid? And they didn't have an outlet to talk to anyone about. So I really encourage anyone who's been hurt, one in six, totally free, it's a nonprofit, check it out and begin that exploration of healing because you're not any less of a human being and not any less of a man. And the more whole you are, the better dad you're gonna be for your kids.
Adam Mitchell (01:00:13.358)
Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (01:00:56.526)
Wow, thank you. So I'd like to tether something to that. If you've heard my story, I'm a victim as well and a survivor. At eight years old, I was severely sexually abused by two boys among a group of other boys. They were teenagers. And I can say that the...
my struggle my whole life going forward until I finally it all kind of came together in my head after I had had my second child. I mean I was later on in life and then all of a sudden like a cascade effect of oh oh that makes sense. Oh my God. And then all of a sudden it just started to really come. Everything came together and you are absolutely right. And for any man who is listening to this and you have even if it's a distant foggy memory of something.
Joelle Casteix (01:01:33.593)
Yeah, yeah. And that experience you talked about, that aha moment, there's actually a name for that. It's called the Nexus of Understanding. And when I do a lot of legislative work and you said you're in New York, the state of New York. Yeah. So we passed the Child Victims Act there, which allowed older people to come forward who were sexually abused as children in the state of New York. And a lot about the next understanding because a lot of times when, especially when a boy is used, there is like, okay, so.
Adam Mitchell (01:01:54.638)
Follow the advice and the links and the instruction. We'll have all that in the description, of course, that Joel's sharing here. The healing is so incredibly important and liberating. Don't hide behind it. There's nothing tough about it. There's nothing strong about it. You can be much stronger and you can live a better life. And thank you so much for that, Joel. Thank you for sharing that and bringing that forward because I know it's kind of not really in the scope of this conversation, but it so very much is, right?
Joelle Casteix (01:02:03.961)
I'm not bleeding. It kind of felt weird. I don't know. And so it takes years and years and years while this poor person is still like incubating in many, many ways. And then all of a sudden there's that nexus of understanding. And for you, it was relatively early for, I do a lot of work with actor Anthony Edwards with Goose Top Gun and he's big with one in six and he'll talk about he was 52 years old and that's the average age. I mean, he came to terms with his abuse. Yeah.
Adam Mitchell (01:03:25.454)
blacked out almost my whole childhood, Joel, like years of my childhood. I don't remember after that. Wow. Um, I want to end this with something that came up when we were talking about the part of respecting your young child's boundaries. And I was really wondering how that grows in the conversation that we're having with our, uh, middle school kids.
our high school kids, and especially our boys, the importance of no means no, and teaching that to our young men. And look, I'm not saying it's not important for our daughters, it is. But guys, our young men need to know that no means stop right now. It doesn't mean, well, maybe, but no. It means no means no, and...
What I'm hearing from what Joelle's sharing with us at that early stage, that's where we begin that message. That when our boys, when they want to say no to Uncle Sal giving him a hug, and we honor that and we respect that, they will be young men who grow into honoring that and respecting that. And this is so very important for everything that we've talked about here. Before we wind up,
Joelle Casteix (01:04:25.721)
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Joelle Casteix (01:04:39.737)
Yes. So.
Joelle Casteix (01:04:48.121)
For my work in the Well -Armored Child and another free ebook I wrote called The Compassionate Response, which I recommend everyone download. It's all my and it's about what to do when someone comes forward to you and says they were sexually abused as a child. Most people don't know what to say. Yeah. So it's a free ebook on my website on Castex .com. C -A -S -T -E -I -X .com. I'll put it in the show notes. That's where you can get the link to all of my books and my TEDx talk.
Adam Mitchell (01:04:52.334)
I just want to really take a moment after this conversation. I want to share my gratitude with you and on behalf not only of the dads here, not on behalf of the survivors, but of everyone who struggles with this conversation or has struggled. Thank you for the work that you do. It is you're changing lives. You're doing God's work and it's extremely not just meaningful, but very, very important. So thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.
Joelle Casteix (01:05:18.457)
And then for information about one in six, you can go to one, number one, in number six dot org. And that's where you'll find the bristle comb project. You can also go to zero abuse project. So it's spelled out Z E R O abuse project dot org. And that's the organization on the chair of the board of directors of, and you can learn about.
Adam Mitchell (01:05:22.99)
Where can we learn? I wanna, man, boy, I really wanted to get into the well -armed child. I really wanted to get into some other things, but we could continue the conversation for sure. Tell me where we can find your best work. What are our next steps as dads here?
Joelle Casteix (01:05:39.673)
our Empower Me curriculum, which goes into schools and teaches kids to protect themselves, or how to empower themselves against predators. And it doesn't talk about sex. It doesn't talk about any, it talks about these body boundaries that we've discussed here. We also have a great technology that we use to help police departments, triage cases of child pornography. We train prosecutors on how to prosecute child sexual assault cases. There's all kinds of great stuff in there. You can check.
Adam Mitchell (01:05:58.99)
That was a question I had. Yeah.
Joelle Casteix (01:06:35.033)
My pleasure.
Adam Mitchell (01:07:03.15)
Wow, wow, this is wonderful. Okay, so the compassionate response, that was a question I wanted to get into where I wanna respect your time, but I definitely wanna put that at the top of my list of resources for our listeners. I'm gonna have all of these links that you gave me in the show notes and more, and I really look forward to continuing this conversation with you, Joel. Thank you so much for joining us on the Close Quarter Dad podcast.